Curse

the_jos · Jul 27, 2009, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kake

Yes, you see it mostly everywhere, that is true. I dont understand, why EVERY monk uses that. i dont use myself it, because, generally, i dont like it. but it sucks on ab, and it can be VERY good, in some missions.

The reason 'every' monk uses HB builds is because it's the current PUG demand.
Somewhere a long time ago people thought: well, this HB build is good at pushing red bars up. And started to use the build in certain teams.
Specially teams that didn't require a lot of protection.
So many PUG players joining those teams learned that HB monks work.
Why? Because damage mitigation came from other sources. And then all you have left is pushing red bars up.

Next those players began forming teams themself. And because they knew HB worked in previous teams they began to ask for it in their teams. This caused even more players to become familiar with HB monks. It's also a relatively fail-proof build when your team isn't taking more damage than the HB can outheal.

Next we have another interesting problem.
When playing two hybrids there has to be tight coordination between the monks. Who prots, who removes hexes and conditions. You don't want to waste let's say PS because the other monk also cast it. Same for condition and hex removing.
A posibility to avoid this would be one protector and one healer.
But then many PUG teams are already investing a lot in damage migration. So it's easier to bring two players pushing red bars up. It's less fail safe than depending on a possible less experienced protector.

In the end from PUG perspective the most failsafe builds are the ones people take. Just the argument that a UA monk can run away and clean up the mess is typical for such thinking. Combine UA with HB for massive heals.
It's relatively safe and almost everyone can play the build.

Does this mean HB/UA builds are superior to other builds? I think not. They rely on the team taking other forms of damage mitigation except in easy areas where no prots would be needed anyway. This means less offense in the team. And I learned that dead foes can't hurt you. But most PUG teams are not willing to create an offensive team and rather turtle through the game than to speed with more risk of failure.
You see this everywhere in the game. People take teams that get things done as fast as possible with the least risk as possible. Put in faster times but more risk of failing and people will take the slower but safer team. Except when the gain in time is huge.

glacialphoenix · Jul 27, 2009, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

The reason 'every' monk uses HB builds is because it's the current PUG demand.

PUGs are generally more open to non-HB builds now, I've only ever seen one person (a HB monk, in fact) who complained about me running WoH hybrid or even LoD hybrid (this was for Dasha Vestibule, I think, and we aced it.). However, HB is still the build that will get by without question, so it's easier to just pop into a PUG and say "I'm running HB."

Coverticus · Jul 29, 2009, 01:32 PM // 13:32

It's a shame because in the hands of someone capable of monking, HB is a very beneficial aid to any healers build. People tend to forget the decrease in casting speed, so HB is not trash. And I certainly remember times when PuGs would raise eyebrows (or kick one of us) at my friend and I who would be twin HB monks. The usual "omg we need a prot monk!!" would come into the fold and, as long as the person wasn't too hostile, we would say try and see.

But this then boiled down to the problem we had most of the time - you can only heal someone so many times. A typical leroy-er struggles, hence why he/she must always have a protection monk. But if the party has a reasonable head on (rare now admittedly) my friend and I would have no issues (even with e-mgmt) and the team would be "O.o".

Anyway, back to the topic in question, people tend to forgethat there are other elites in the game that can do just a good job - if not better.
Tbh, the blame here can be thrown in the direction of PvX and the likes. The general PuG will treat these kind of sites as gospel and you have to bring what the site tells you. Or you are noob.

Depending on the area you are visiting, so many to choose from - WoH (still a favourite), ZB (allowing a prot build more than a healing build but with the emergency heal in), Glimmer, LoD (though not as powerful now). Hell, even Blessed Light is still a favourite of mine which has always allowed me to run a very powerful hybrid build that did a lot of jobs nicely. But never would I run it with PuGs, I couldn't be bothered with the amount of QQing it would generate.

Builds (in general, not just monks) suck now because of 2 things - templates and site's posting builds. Fewer people have to think now and therefore understand the mechanics of the game. Its like USB - plug and play.

Burst Cancel · Jul 29, 2009, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Unfortunately, as this thread has shown, the plug-and-play build is a myth. Even builds as supposedly braindead as HB redbarupupup are failing in the hands of incompetent players, so there must exist a baseline level of thought required that a lot of people simply aren't meeting.

HB has problems beyond merely fostering or enabling less intelligent play. Even (or especially) in the hands of a competent player, healing is overall less efficient and effective than prot. In hard mode, the amount of damage that is typically mitigated by staple prot skills like PS, SoA, or Aegis far exceeds the amount that can be healed by nearly any spell you care to name. Mitigation also buys time, which, along with energy, are the monk's primary resource.

Granted, prot is less of a factor in teams where there is heavy midline damage reduction (i.e., imbagon). In a game dominated by PuGs and H/H however, the suggestion that all, or even most, teams will be running this sort of damage reduction is highly suspect. The reality is closer to what others have reported here: little, if any, midline damage mitigation and HB monks that burn themselves out in 10 seconds of redbar.

Coverticus · Jul 29, 2009, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

Unfortunately, as this thread has shown, the plug-and-play build is a myth. Even builds as supposedly braindead as HB redbarupupup are failing in the hands of incompetent players, so there must exist a baseline level of thought required that a lot of people simply aren't meeting.

Thats what I was trying to say - because people can just load their builds, they don't have to think anymore on it on how they work, since they haven't had to create them. So while there is the plug and play element existing, it doesn't teach the player how to use it.
Same with USB (hence why I used the reference). You just stick in the device and use it - no longer do you have to worry about finding drivers, loading them, configuring etc.